I’m super excited to welcome Dave Wall, a book cover veteran and educator at Arcangel Images, to continue our interview series. Dave will share how he got started with book covers, tell some scary/fascinating stories and provide us with valuable tips on creating relevant book covers – particularly helpful for newer and/or struggling contributors.

I’ve thoroughly enjoyed interviewing Dave as I personally identify with his dark/mysterious/nightmare-ish niche which I use as inspiration for my own thrillers, including bloody ones – let’s get started!

Recap on interviews with other talented Arcangel Contributors

Before we get started, I would like to recap on the existing series with other talented Arcangel Contributors, including:

• Abigail Miles;
• KeremGo3D;
• Jelena Petrovic;
• George Cairns;
• Yours truly Alexandre Rotenberg;
• Vanessa Skotnitsky; and
• Ruben Ramos.

I’ve also interviewed Nash Mascaro, Arcangel Sales Director!

Looking to interview book-cover Designers!

I’m super pleased with the number and quality of book-cover artists interviewed on here. Next, I’m looking to get some insight into another crucial segment of the industry, designers, who to me are magicians with a keen commercial eye.

Please reach out and I would love to hear from you on how we, book cover artists, can potentially make your life easier to turn an image into a sellable cover using your skill-set. I’m always advised to “try to think like a Designer”…so need to get into the head of one!

Now onto the interview with Dave.

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About Dave

Hi Dave, thanks for this opportunity. Please tell us about yourself, where you’re from and how you got started as a professional photographer?

Thanks Alex, pleasure to be here! Hi, my name is Dave Wall and I’m from Manchester in the UK. I have been a full-time professional Photographer now for over 35 years, with the last 20 specialising in Book Cover Photography.

I have worked in most areas of the photographic Industry at one time or another, from selling cameras, working in Research & Development to help “invent” the 1st digital cameras, training and everything else in between.

What were some of the most valuable experiences you have had along the way to becoming a professional photographer?

I was always of the mindset that I would do anything to become a working pro so my beginnings were humble (very humble). I worked for one of the biggest named photographers in Manchester in the 1980s and I worked there for three years for free – yes you did read that right for free so I could learn from the best to hopefully become the best. For the first 6 months my main jobs were sweeping up and making tea!!

I think some of the most valuable experiences I have learnt along the way in my very varied path are more business related than photographic related.

For example – never give a client a verbal quote always send by email requesting they reply by email only to accept the price, this way there is never any issues later down the line with regards both price and brief.

Another valuable experience as strange as it may seem – don’t always listen to other photographers and take what they say as gospel. Many will over-exaggerate their achievements, their workload and their pricing to make themselves look most successful and they might actually be. This industry is awash with egos.

In addition to being a multi-award winning and internationally published photographer with over 45 Major Competition wins, you’re also an educator (retouching expert), could you please elaborate on some of your courses and seminars?

Over the years, yes, I have won many awards, however, I don’t class these as major achievements, for me keeping my clients happy is of much more value to my business. So much so I have retired from competitions all together as I have realised they are just a vanity exercise and take a great deal of time – time I could be using for my customers.

I have been an educator in photography for decades now and yes I have run many various training courses around the world in this time.

My main courses now however are mainly on a one-to-one basis usually with other working professionals (but not always) and these are always bespoke in nature. My main courses are usually Photoshop and Lightroom related but I also now run specific courses on “The Business of Book Cover Photography” and also “The Secrets of Book Cover Retouching”.

Details can be found here. All my courses are bespoke to individuals needs so if anyone would like to get in touch to move themselves forward – please feel free 🙂 

You feature frequently on the Arcangel app with retouching tutorials, how long have you been putting together these excellent tutorials and what are some of the key lessons / themes that you try to hone in time and time again?

I have been creating webcasts for Arcangel for over 10 years now!! These started as 15 minute mini segments on a weekly basis and are now on a monthly basis approximately 45 minutes in length. Over this time (as you can probably imagine) most areas of Photoshop, Lightroom and all things in regards to book covers have been covered in one way or another.

Main areas that I like to hone in on though is details matter they REALLY matter.

The difference between having your work accepted and having your work sold is literally chalk and cheese. I always say that having your work accepted it is just getting past the troll on the bridge – getting it sold is all that matters.

Images will only sell if (and only if) the details are perfect!!!

Details Details Details

Dave, the Book Cover Artist

You’re quite active in all different genres of photography, including product photography, but for this interview I would like to focus on your book cover work. Therefore, how long have you been uploading and how many book covers have you licensed so far out of your impressive 9,307 portfolio?

I have been with Arcangel since the very first week they were in business which is now 19 years!!! I believe I was their 4th ever Photographer.

I actually don’t have a very large portfolio for 19 years worth of work as I do not shoot models very often and this keeps the numbers lower. Many other contributors who do shoot models can literally upload hundreds with just slightly different poses which creates a much bigger Portfolios. This isn’t the way I work so my portfolio is inherently smaller. Although it is a numbers game it is also about shooting the right images and the ever so important details.

With regards the number of covers I have licensed – honestly I wish I was disciplined enough to take note. My guess would be 1000+

Although it is possible to make a living solely from book covers, everything photographic related it is getting more and more difficult. I sell more book covers than ever,  I have to work twice as hard for half the rewards.

Wow 1k+! What are some of the most unusual images or unexpected you’ve seen licensed from the Arcangel library?

In the past I have often been surprised at some of the images that have sold, however, after 19 years nothing surprises me at all. It is sometimes disheartening not selling what you feel are great images, but on the other side of the coin this is also a great feeling making good sales out of images that you don’t really feel are very good.

How would you describe your style, seems like the stuff of dystopian nightmares to me!? Link to Dave’s AC port

How would I describe my style – what is a great question – DARK : MALEVOLENT & HAUNTING……………let’s put it this way you wouldn’t want to live inside my head !!!!!!

What are the key elements you consider when creating a book cover? How do you ensure that the cover effectively communicates the essence of the book?

For me the key elements to consider when creating a book cover is less is more. I all too often see images where Photographer has added too many elements to “the story of the image” and  this is actually detrimental to its sales potential. Clean, simple and most of all —— open to interpretation.

Are there any unique challenges that you face specifically when photographing book covers compared to other types of photography?

One of the main challenges when people first start shooting for book covers is learning to shoot everything vertical. I don’t think I’ve shot a horizontal photograph out on the streets for over 10 years, but it takes a great deal of muscle memory to force yourself to shoot vertical all the time.

Gear

On the topic of shooting vertically, what is your go-to gear when it comes to shooting for book covers and why?

Over the years obviously my gear has changed with regards book covers, however over the last six or seven years I exclusively shoot on micro 4/3 for this part of my business. Many say that the quality of this format isn’t good enough for many applications but for book covers it is absolutely perfect – it is small – it is light – and I can hand hold for 3 to 4 seconds and still get razor sharp images. In fact just using my 12-100 lens there is nothing with regards book covers that I cannot achieve, with this lens alone I have shot over 47,000 images!!

Models

As for models, do you sometimes use yourself or others?

I don’t use models very often – although if I do they tend to be family members or close friends. I try not to use images of myself as they are quite difficult to achieve the correct poses.

Funny / Scary Stories

You shoot at some nightmarish locations; how do you scout them and have you ever had to shoot a book cover in a really unconventional location or under unusual circumstances? If so, what was it like, and how did you adapt to the situation?

For my style of photography I shoot in some extremely dangerous places and I would not recommend that to anybody else AT ALL. I have been doing this a very long time and I can read the situation quite well – although I have on occasion had to deal with some very unsavoury characters. Quite often when I am inside buildings I come across squatters for example and in general they truly believe that you are the one that is in the wrong because you’re in their living room – but quite often you can talk your way out of that situation. I often have to deal with drug addicts and they are far more dangerous. However without wanting to stereotype people the hardest people to deal with especially inside empty buildings is gypsies – who are usually (but not always) in the same building as you to rip out the copper wires. If I I have any inclination they are present I leave immediately as there is literally no reasoning at all, and things can escalate extremely quickly – sadly this is through experience.

Scary stuff! Do you have any favorite book cover photoshoot stories or other memorable experiences you can share with us? We’d love to hear about something wacky or unexpected that happened during a shoot.

Far too many to mention (as I am always getting into trouble) but one does stick out as being the most amusing.

I had been walking the streets of London laden with gear for over 12 hours I was tired and cranky and was setting up for my last shot of the day. I heard a screech behind me and a black BMW X5 pulled up very quickly and three anti-terrorism police jumped out with submachine guns pointing straight at me. They asked me what I was doing, unfortunately I get asked this all the time so my cheeky answer is always the same – what does it look like?

This obviously didn’t go down too well and the sergeant was not amused. He proceeded to ask me if I had photographed a doorway earlier that evening along the same street – to which my answer was “yes which one”

His answer was ….. “I can’t tell you it’s a secret”

I couldn’t help it my sarcasm kicked in again so I said “if it’s a secret how would I know”?

He replied (believe it or believe or not) – “Everybody knows”

I just couldn’t help myself again, replying “It’s not much of a secret then”!!!

……..by this time the two other officers had dropped their weapons and were chuckling away.

I asked the sergeant if he would like to look at the back of my camera and look for the particular doorway he was talking about. We flicked  through the back of the camera and he pointed at one of the images and said “That picture there did you photograph that doorway”

……. to which again I just couldn’t help myself “Yes it’s on my camera so I guess I have”

After a little more banter they were happy and they were on their way.

I later found out later that I had inadvertently walked into the courtyard of MI6 and photographed their front door !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tips for other book cover Contributors

As mentioned, details are so important and the high standards set by Arcangel can be challenging especially for beginners who are still learning the ropes. What would be your advice for creatives who just start creating book cover content?

The images in Arcangel are indeed exceptionally high and having images accepted is getting increasingly more difficult – but this is actually a good thing. For new contributors it can be quite daunting because of the high bar that is being set but my advice is simple – do your research !!! Amazon, Barnes & Noble etc. are your training ground to see what “actually” sells. From there create simple images that stand out and ensure you have impeccable attention to detail.

From your experience, what would you say are the most common mistakes that would lead to rejections and/or being overlooked by potential buyers?

Some of the most common reasons for images that are rejected or overlooked by potential buyers is the thing that I keep mentioning over and over again – details matter. Also again something I have already mentioned – too many different elements within the image – creating “too much” narrative. Keep it simple.

As a retouching expert, how proficient must contributors be at post-processing to be a successful book cover contributor? In other words, would someone with only basic knowledge still be able to produce quality more natural-looking content that that can be licensed (after all, designers can manipulate images themselves). 

I’m a firm believer as I have already mentioned that details matter – so for me the retouching and processing part of creating images is extremely important. Although Lightroom is a fantastic starting point to really move forward within this part of the industry people need impeccable retouching skills. This does not mean that images have to be composites or have to be wild or wacky it just means that images have to be as perfect as possible.

People often comment on how much time I spend on retouching followed by – WOW don’t you sell a lot of covers ………the two go hand in hand.

Market Trends

On the Arcangel App, there’s much talk about following book cover trends. However, for those that don’t have access, would you kindly identify some trends that you’re observing that new contributors may wish to include in their initial batch?

Actually, everybody has access to book cover trends by simply looking on the Internet at the biggest book sellers. As mentioned earlier Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Waterstones all have a wealth of covers to learn from. These booksellers even brake down covers into genre – the information here is the most valuable there is as it is actual images that HAVE SOLD. It just takes time to do the research – I can’t stress how important this actually is.

I religiously one day per month going into Manchester town centre and spent three or four hours in the huge Waterstones bookstore getting inspiration photographing covers of books – while being followed usually by the security guards – this to me is therapeutic and cathartic but also immensely important to see what is “trending” RIGHT NOW.

What would you say are the main cultural differences, on average, between let’s say the US market, UK market and French markets? I recall listening on the app that the French market licenses more monochrome, UK market prefers more copy space for larger fonts and the US market prefers less bloody images, which is something you create lots.

You are absolutely correct with regards the differences of images and design of book covers depending on geographical locations. For example the largest market (which is the US market) they tend to like bold over the top colours, whereas France love monochrome and tend to have quite a good style base to them. The UK market is pretty middle of the road in this respect. The American market really does NOT like blood on their images but the European market are far more open too it – although as I keep saying – less is more.

Following on from the above, do you create according to which market may have the highest potential for larger sales?

Although I like to “think” I target particular markets when creating potential covers – in truth I have been doing this for so long now that I tend to create how I feel on any given day. I realise I “should” target certain markets but in reality I tend not to get caught up in this too much as it can take away creativity.

Book Cover goals

Do you have certain goals in mind that you’d like to share, such as creating a certain number of images per month?

I think my main goal with regards book covers is keeping motivated more than anything else. The reason for this is paid jobs always take priority, and generally life always takes priority over what is a speculative business model. So for me it is coming up with ideas, keeping motivated and constantly trying to keep ahead of the competition.

Artificial Intelligence

What are your thoughts on how Artificial Intelligence will disrupt the stock photography industry. Do you see it as a threat or opportunity?

What are my thoughts when it comes to AI. I won’t get too deep – but for me Ai is ethically and morally wrong. Many do not understand how this software works – (I do). It harvests images without consent to feed into it’s database. From here it trains itself to create new images and this is why I am vehemently against this technology. I am under no illusion that this technology will create disruption throughout Stock Photography and will devalue the industry as much as (if not more) than Microstock did.

End of interview

Thank you very much, Dave, and wish you continued success and look forward to seeing much more of your work and your tutorials on the app!

About Alex

I’m an eccentric guy, currently based in Lisbon, Portugal, on a quest to visit all corners of the world and capture stock images & footage. I’ve devoted eight years to making it as a travel photographer / videographer and freelance writer. I hope to inspire others by showing an unique insight into a fascinating business model.

Most recently I’ve gone all in on submitting book cover images to Arcangel Images. Oh and also recently purchased a DJI Mavic 2s drone and taking full advantage and perhaps a Mavic 3 soon.

I’m proud to have written a book about my adventures which includes tips on making it as a stock travel photographer – Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock Photography